Rolling Locks

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Offline DVDigital58

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Rolling Locks
« on: December 27, 2018, 09:19:25 AM »
So I've sort of had this idea for a rolling lock.

The basic idea of the concept is the lock would be set for a shortish period of time say 48 hours. Then before the 48 hours is up the lockee can decide if they want a further 24/48 hours added. This would keep rolling until the lockee dicides they can no longer continue.

The reason I had this idea was to help offer locks to beginners/ people who are unable to commit to a long term lock or thos who like to see hiw long they can last. A rolling lock would encourage the lockee to asses how they are and if the can survive the next few days. This should help a lockee build up a level of trust with a keyholder and would provide a more consensual dynamic on both sides to the stricter keyholder dynamic the app currently offers.

With a bit of work I'm sure this could be hosted using a fixed lock but may be easier for a keyholder to manage as a separate lock type with a daily voting system.

One of the potential problems I see using fixed locks is timezones and how a possible 8 hour sleep may lead to a keyholder not updating the lock in time.

As each day the lockee would have 4 possible responses in there 24 hour vote.

Green, everything is ok and no potential problems. 24/48 hours would be added.
Yellow, i would love to unlock but I'm surviving. (What keyholders consider the sweet spot) 24/48 hours would be added.
Red, I need out asap. 12 hours would be added so the lockee can change there mind. When this time is up the lock ends. Keys would still be available for a real emergency.
Fail to vote in time, 24 hours would be added for a single missed vote but a 2nd or 3rd consecutive missed vote would end the lock.

Votes would be set in the 24 hour window, timers not hidden. Users can change there mind during the 24 hours but when the vote window ends the flag is cleared and the changes are applied.

As an added twist the responses could impact the number of keys required to unlock.
Green = 3x as all should be ok.
Yellow = 2x
Red = 1x
Fail = value of last vote.

An hourly option might also work for self bondage users.

Be interested in hearing if anyone has any thoughts on the concept and the possible dynamics.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 11:32:15 AM by DVDigital58 »

Re: Rolling Locks
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 07:39:42 PM »
Each day, the lockee would have 3 possible responses in their 24 hour vote:
  • Green, everything is ok and no potential problems. 24/48 hours would be added.
  • Yellow, i would love to unlock but I'm surviving. (What keyholders consider the sweet spot) 24/48 hours would be added.
  • Red, I need out asap. 12 hours would be added so the lockee can change their mind. When this time is up the lock ends. Keys would still be available for a real emergency.

If the lockee fails to vote in time, 24 hours would be added for a single missed vote but a 2nd or 3rd consecutive missed vote would end the lock.

Thank you very much for taking the time to write down this suggestion. Reading your point of view inspired a couple of ideas I'd like to share, too.

The "rolling lock" you describe seems to make sense only for people who play alone, i.e. with the app. Lockees who play with a human key-holder can use the currently existing fixed-time lock already to accomplish the scenario you describe. People who want to play alone, however, should have this game implemented as a fixed-time lock that's managed by a key-holder bot. Once the user has created the lock, he'll regularly signal his state of mind and the bot will regularly extend the lock's run-time based on that feedback using an algorithm such as the one you've described.

We kinda, sorta have this feature already, as our current bots do take user feed back into account. It just occurs to me that the user feedback is not valued enough in the procedure that determines the bots next move. For example, why would the ever release a lock who's owner signals that he is happy? Isn't the point of the whole business to go past the point of complete happiness and into the realm of "man, this is getting pretty hard". That's the state you want to be in when the bot releases the lock.

Generally speaking, I like the signals "green", "yellow", and "red" much better than the current feedback scheme that's based on two dozen emojis. Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough, but I cannot tell those icons apart. I typically manage to figure out whether an emoji signifies a general thrust of "happy" or "unhappy", but that's about it. The nuances are lost on me, and after reading your posting I wonder whether maybe the ability to express all those nuances is more confusing than helpful?

One could argue that having "green", "yellow", and "red" is too complicated even, because it's not terribly obvious what yellow means. How is it different from "green"? Note that even in your description, both choices have the same effect. So maybe it really comes down to expressing "I am fine" (green) and "I am struggling" (red)? A key-holder bot should not release an user who says they are fine. The proper response is: "You are fine? Okay. Let's talk again tomorrow." The interesting question how to deal with users who signal "red" (and keep signaling "red"). You don't want to unlock them immediately, because there's no thrill in that. But you can't keep them locked up another 6 months either. I haven't thought much about this topic, but it's an interesting design space to explore when writing the bots.

Anyhow, thanks for raising this fascinating topic.

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Offline DVDigital58

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Re: Rolling Locks
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2019, 01:29:29 PM »
Thanks for the feedback. Pleased to hear you like the topic.

I think it is interesting exploring different perspectives.

I know some people getting excited by the idea of commiting to a distant lock up date but I guess part of me prefers the idea of keeping the focus more on the here and now. That way I feel keyholders have more power because they can more freely decide in the moment.

I think the problem with emoji is people start attaching there own meaning to them. They can be a fun way to communicate without any chat functionality but they aren't always easy to interpret.

I still think 3 states are needed in some form. So people can differentiate between the selfish desire to unlock and emergency circumstances. Although keys are an option some keyholder relationships prefer to work with a process where there is time to notify the keyholder first. I guess keyholders can always agree a system which works for them.


Re: Rolling Locks
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 09:18:38 PM »
I was thinking of something simular which is more for self holders. After you find your green card(s), you have the option keep the same combination hidden but have the new lock options to continue, instead of restarting over again. That way you can switch up your card and options for a longer or shorter duration and keep your active duration ongoing without having to create a new lock and combination.

Re: Rolling Locks
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2019, 09:38:18 AM »
Hey Peter - are you suggesting that the emojis impact the choices of the bots?

Re: Rolling Locks
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2019, 09:55:42 AM »
Are you suggesting that the emojis impact the choices of the bots?

I actually assumed that they already do. Now you've made me wonder, though. The manual at https://www.chastikey.com/help/doku.php?id=keyholder_bots isn't quite clear in that regard. It says that you can send emojis to the bot, but it doesn't say what that will accomplish (other than that the bot might send one back).

Anyway, if the emojis don't impact the choices the bots make already, then I certainly think they should!

Re: Rolling Locks
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2019, 10:06:13 AM »
They don't impact/affect the lock (yet). It's just one of those little touches to make them seem like a real keyholder. It's not easy coming up with a standard interpretation for each of the 25 emojis as alot of them are quite similar.
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Re: Rolling Locks
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2019, 10:38:28 AM »
They don't impact/affect the lock (yet). It's just one of those little touches to make them seem like a real keyholder. It's not easy coming up with a standard interpretation for each of the 25 emojis as alot of them are quite similar.

It would be nice to have "green", "yellow", "red" flags for that purpose, really. Makes your life easier and it's easier to understand for the users, too.